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	<title>Comments on: &#8220;Christians won&#8217;t stop using Allah&#8221;</title>
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	<description>Making Sense of Politics &#38; Pop Culture</description>
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		<title>By: Erik Christianson</title>
		<link>http://www.thenutgraph.com/christians-wont-stop-using-allah/#comment-14862</link>
		<dc:creator>Erik Christianson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jan 2010 21:52:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-14862</guid>
		<description>Let the Muslims keep their god ... the name of THE Creator God as He was called by Moses is Yahweh!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let the Muslims keep their god &#8230; the name of THE Creator God as He was called by Moses is Yahweh!</p>
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		<title>By: azreen</title>
		<link>http://www.thenutgraph.com/christians-wont-stop-using-allah/#comment-14724</link>
		<dc:creator>azreen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Jan 2010 07:20:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-14724</guid>
		<description>Don&#039;t you even care how Muslims feel or their points of view? Christians have a lot of names for God... why Allah??</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don&#8217;t you even care how Muslims feel or their points of view? Christians have a lot of names for God&#8230; why Allah??</p>
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		<title>By: Kate Green, Zombie Shooter</title>
		<link>http://www.thenutgraph.com/christians-wont-stop-using-allah/#comment-14536</link>
		<dc:creator>Kate Green, Zombie Shooter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jan 2010 14:07:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-14536</guid>
		<description>Merlin:

Actually, the disclaimer that Christian material printed in the Malay language is &#039;for non-Muslims only&#039; has been a kind of standard practice for quite a while. From what I understand, even with the disclaimer, the question that it can &#039;confuse&#039; Muslims still arises.

I think people fail to realise how long the East Malaysian Christian community has been dealing with this, and how it&#039;s pretty blatantly obvious that dealing with all too many of the pro-ban side is like dealing with an unreasonable and demanding child. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Merlin:</p>
<p>Actually, the disclaimer that Christian material printed in the Malay language is &#8216;for non-Muslims only&#8217; has been a kind of standard practice for quite a while. From what I understand, even with the disclaimer, the question that it can &#8216;confuse&#8217; Muslims still arises.</p>
<p>I think people fail to realise how long the East Malaysian Christian community has been dealing with this, and how it&#8217;s pretty blatantly obvious that dealing with all too many of the pro-ban side is like dealing with an unreasonable and demanding child.</p>
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		<title>By: help!</title>
		<link>http://www.thenutgraph.com/christians-wont-stop-using-allah/#comment-14527</link>
		<dc:creator>help!</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jan 2010 08:45:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-14527</guid>
		<description>Just saw a banner in Selangor

Semoga Allah melanjutkan Usia Tuanku and merahmati takhtanya.

Is that from ALL his subjects?
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just saw a banner in Selangor</p>
<p>Semoga Allah melanjutkan Usia Tuanku and merahmati takhtanya.</p>
<p>Is that from ALL his subjects?</p>
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		<title>By: peace</title>
		<link>http://www.thenutgraph.com/christians-wont-stop-using-allah/#comment-14525</link>
		<dc:creator>peace</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jan 2010 08:42:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-14525</guid>
		<description>Merlin, yo. 

When will it end? If Christians say, &quot;Okay, okay, we can call our god &#039;Tuhan&#039;&quot;, Dewan Bahasa puts it into the dictionary: &quot;Tuhan â€“ the god Christians worship.&quot; How long will it be till some extremist realises that the children of this country proclaim every week &quot;Kepercayaan kepada Tuhan&quot;.in the Rukunegara and get the idea that the children will be confused or are being converted? Then what?

Already some churches are told that the crosses must not be freely visible, Christmas celebrations must be about Santa and not Jesus. 

Sensitive? Why? No concrete reason to be so except for personal ideas. Everyone is equal in law. One cannot take away the liberties of another at one&#039;s own whim. The result is chaos. The answer is to educate. Ignorance leads to fear. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Who are we really feeding with hate? God, or...?

btw; Kamus Dewan : Allah : Ar Tuhan (Yang Maha Esa)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Merlin, yo. </p>
<p>When will it end? If Christians say, &#8220;Okay, okay, we can call our god &#8216;Tuhan&#8217;&#8221;, Dewan Bahasa puts it into the dictionary: &#8220;Tuhan â€“ the god Christians worship.&#8221; How long will it be till some extremist realises that the children of this country proclaim every week &#8220;Kepercayaan kepada Tuhan&#8221;.in the Rukunegara and get the idea that the children will be confused or are being converted? Then what?</p>
<p>Already some churches are told that the crosses must not be freely visible, Christmas celebrations must be about Santa and not Jesus. </p>
<p>Sensitive? Why? No concrete reason to be so except for personal ideas. Everyone is equal in law. One cannot take away the liberties of another at one&#8217;s own whim. The result is chaos. The answer is to educate. Ignorance leads to fear. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Who are we really feeding with hate? God, or&#8230;?</p>
<p>btw; Kamus Dewan : Allah : Ar Tuhan (Yang Maha Esa)</p>
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		<title>By: good</title>
		<link>http://www.thenutgraph.com/christians-wont-stop-using-allah/#comment-14486</link>
		<dc:creator>good</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Jan 2010 18:44:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-14486</guid>
		<description>I bet the Pope, the number one authority in Christianity, never used that word before. I wonder how other Christians can? Maybe we start to see a new kind of blasphemy in the making, all these will undermine the Pope - what will be the future of Christianity when the Pope himself is undermined? </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I bet the Pope, the number one authority in Christianity, never used that word before. I wonder how other Christians can? Maybe we start to see a new kind of blasphemy in the making, all these will undermine the Pope &#8211; what will be the future of Christianity when the Pope himself is undermined?</p>
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		<title>By: gee</title>
		<link>http://www.thenutgraph.com/christians-wont-stop-using-allah/#comment-14460</link>
		<dc:creator>gee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Jan 2010 04:57:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-14460</guid>
		<description>Merlin, yo.

The Herald and other publications has &quot;FOR NON Muslims Only&quot;:

1. Bahasa Malaysia is the national language &gt; all Malaysians must speak this &gt; Christians not allowed to print bahasa bibles &gt; so use Indonesian bibles &gt; got Allah in Indonesian bibles &gt; ban Indonesian bibles &gt; so apa macam?

2. The Muslims think they are absolutely right &gt; Their God is Allah. The Christians  also think they are absolutely right &gt; their God is Allah. The point is what gives one religion the right to stop another from using a name they believe is absolutely right?

3. The whole world believes in the oneness of God the Creator &gt; the one God of Abraham, Moses, Noah. The One God. Only the understanding differs but [we are] talking about the SAME one God. Only WEST MALAYSIA. Do you know how that looks? Christians/Jews called Him Allah before the Muslims and they have to change His name?

Q: In East Malaysia,is the Christian God is referred to as Allah? A: Yes 

Q: They are speaking in Bahasa Malaysia? A: Yes 

Q:The Christian God is referred to as Allah in Bahasa? A: Yes 

Q: So it is not wrong? A. No (in East Malaysia) 

Q: Bahasa Malaysia is the same in the whole of Malaysia? A:? 

Q: They all sit for the same exam? UPSR? PMR? A: Yes 

Q: One Language, One nation? A: Yes 

Q: So why can&#039;t Allah be used in West Malaysia? A: Because we say so 

Q: Why? A: Because we say so 

Q:Why? A: There are enactments 

Q: Why? A: Because we say so 

Q: Can you qoute anything from the Quran that prohibits this? A: No 

Q: So , why do you say so? A: For harmony 

Q: Isn&#039;t it better to educate the people that it is ok? A: No 

Q: Why? A: Because we say so 

Q:Who is this we. Do you have a consensus? A: What is that? 

&#039;We say so&#039; is no basis for anything...that is what laws and constitutions are for....to prevent this &#039;we say so&#039;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Merlin, yo.</p>
<p>The Herald and other publications has &#8220;FOR NON Muslims Only&#8221;:</p>
<p>1. Bahasa Malaysia is the national language > all Malaysians must speak this > Christians not allowed to print bahasa bibles > so use Indonesian bibles > got Allah in Indonesian bibles > ban Indonesian bibles > so apa macam?</p>
<p>2. The Muslims think they are absolutely right > Their God is Allah. The Christians  also think they are absolutely right > their God is Allah. The point is what gives one religion the right to stop another from using a name they believe is absolutely right?</p>
<p>3. The whole world believes in the oneness of God the Creator > the one God of Abraham, Moses, Noah. The One God. Only the understanding differs but [we are] talking about the SAME one God. Only WEST MALAYSIA. Do you know how that looks? Christians/Jews called Him Allah before the Muslims and they have to change His name?</p>
<p>Q: In East Malaysia,is the Christian God is referred to as Allah? A: Yes </p>
<p>Q: They are speaking in Bahasa Malaysia? A: Yes </p>
<p>Q:The Christian God is referred to as Allah in Bahasa? A: Yes </p>
<p>Q: So it is not wrong? A. No (in East Malaysia) </p>
<p>Q: Bahasa Malaysia is the same in the whole of Malaysia? A:? </p>
<p>Q: They all sit for the same exam? UPSR? PMR? A: Yes </p>
<p>Q: One Language, One nation? A: Yes </p>
<p>Q: So why can&#8217;t Allah be used in West Malaysia? A: Because we say so </p>
<p>Q: Why? A: Because we say so </p>
<p>Q:Why? A: There are enactments </p>
<p>Q: Why? A: Because we say so </p>
<p>Q: Can you qoute anything from the Quran that prohibits this? A: No </p>
<p>Q: So , why do you say so? A: For harmony </p>
<p>Q: Isn&#8217;t it better to educate the people that it is ok? A: No </p>
<p>Q: Why? A: Because we say so </p>
<p>Q:Who is this we. Do you have a consensus? A: What is that? </p>
<p>&#8216;We say so&#8217; is no basis for anything&#8230;that is what laws and constitutions are for&#8230;.to prevent this &#8216;we say so&#8217;.</p>
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		<title>By: Kamal</title>
		<link>http://www.thenutgraph.com/christians-wont-stop-using-allah/#comment-14441</link>
		<dc:creator>Kamal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Jan 2010 15:25:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-14441</guid>
		<description>Merlin,

Wow...cleverly deceptive. At a glance it sounds rational and persuasive even, but upon closer reading and it becomes evidently clear [...] :-) 

Whatever the outcome, the word Allah has it roots in a region and culture that over time has been successively and successfully introduced to many other regions in the world. Today the Sikh community uses the term Allah, the Iban as we are told use Allah as well and various terms like Firman, Jibrail and Ta&#039;ala (if I am not mistaken) have been adapted to local indigenous beliefs. To me the debate particularly between Muslims and Christians, is about the Doctrine of God (what constitutes God) - both believe in God as monotheistic. Christianity hold to the doctrine of God as the Trinity and Islam to the Doctrine of God as Oneness. Since both are monotheistic religions - it should make no sense to say â€˜your God and my Godâ€™...both fundamentally agree there is only one God. It is perhaps more accurate perhaps to say your religion and my religion. But letâ€™s agree that oneâ€™s choice in faith is personal and not a demonstration of right or wrong. Since each one who has faith in a religion will always claim theirs to be the truth. Hence it is a pointless argument. 

The question over confusion and conversion is often paraded as synonymous but are these [really the same thing]? Do people get tricked into conversion - if one accepts that conversion requires acceptance, a voluntary action, how can a Muslim accidentally become a Christian? It is generally agreed that both religions share a common genealogy yet the way they present their narratives and structure the content are different. You will notice this if you go as far as browsing through the Bible. In Malaysia, it is forbidden to proselytize to Malay [Malaysians], so the likelihood of a Malay Muslim encountering a bible in BM diminishes. 

I would suggest, rather than continue to focus the debate on who can use what, let us work out the important things in society - after all if anyone picks up a book on the Prophet Muhammad (Peace Be upon Him) you will find him to be a practical statesman with concerns about the everyday affairs in this life; and through responsible conduct in this life that we address the needs for the next. We are often told, &#039;This life is like preparing for a long journey&#039;. 

I am not a scholar on Islam or even an enlightened Muslim, but what little I know tells me we are encouraged to lead responsible lives. We are not to depend on others to decide and tell us what to do. We have all the faculties to make rational decisions. We are judged on our choices and actions. We who profess Islam as our faith should ask ourselves, is denying another faith the [freedom to practice] Islamic? Can those who strongly opposed the use of Allah by non-Muslims clearly say that to allow it is somehow endangering Muslims? But how do we explain the practice in other Muslim countries? For that matter, how can we explain the many peaceful years the term Allah has and remains to be used by Christians in their everyday lives in Malaysia? Muslims disagree with the Christian doctrine of God, but how does the belief of others impinge on us? If we are honest in our reflection, I suspect we will all come to the conclusion that it doesnâ€™t. If there is a crisis of faith in Malay Muslims, first, let us look at our community and ourselves. To blame others is simply to deny ourselves responsibility over our actions. 

But let us also remember than in a democratic society people have a right to voice their opinion albeit peacefully. If some Muslims feel uncomfortable with the use of the word Allah by non-Muslims, they should be allowed to register their protests. But the law and government should reflect the constitution in the longterm interests of all regardless of their status as majority or minority. To appease the majority without recourse to other interests is often to lapse into a tyranny of the majority. However, I would suggest that as events are not represented accurately enough (itâ€™s all really opinions - no oneâ€™s done an opinion survey), to assume there is a majority support for or against in this issue is premature. So letâ€™s all take a step back and recognize this is not an issue divided by religious affiliations - not all Muslims in Malaysia oppose the use of the word Allah by non-Muslims. So I think it is a little unfair to continue to address the issue as if there already exists distinctions along religious lines. I am a Muslim who feels it is wrong for the state to intercede in the practice of oneâ€™s faith - because this is not a matter for public interest, rather it is private.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Merlin,</p>
<p>Wow&#8230;cleverly deceptive. At a glance it sounds rational and persuasive even, but upon closer reading and it becomes evidently clear [...] <img src='http://www.thenutgraph.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' />  </p>
<p>Whatever the outcome, the word Allah has it roots in a region and culture that over time has been successively and successfully introduced to many other regions in the world. Today the Sikh community uses the term Allah, the Iban as we are told use Allah as well and various terms like Firman, Jibrail and Ta&#8217;ala (if I am not mistaken) have been adapted to local indigenous beliefs. To me the debate particularly between Muslims and Christians, is about the Doctrine of God (what constitutes God) &#8211; both believe in God as monotheistic. Christianity hold to the doctrine of God as the Trinity and Islam to the Doctrine of God as Oneness. Since both are monotheistic religions &#8211; it should make no sense to say â€˜your God and my Godâ€™&#8230;both fundamentally agree there is only one God. It is perhaps more accurate perhaps to say your religion and my religion. But letâ€™s agree that oneâ€™s choice in faith is personal and not a demonstration of right or wrong. Since each one who has faith in a religion will always claim theirs to be the truth. Hence it is a pointless argument. </p>
<p>The question over confusion and conversion is often paraded as synonymous but are these [really the same thing]? Do people get tricked into conversion &#8211; if one accepts that conversion requires acceptance, a voluntary action, how can a Muslim accidentally become a Christian? It is generally agreed that both religions share a common genealogy yet the way they present their narratives and structure the content are different. You will notice this if you go as far as browsing through the Bible. In Malaysia, it is forbidden to proselytize to Malay [Malaysians], so the likelihood of a Malay Muslim encountering a bible in BM diminishes. </p>
<p>I would suggest, rather than continue to focus the debate on who can use what, let us work out the important things in society &#8211; after all if anyone picks up a book on the Prophet Muhammad (Peace Be upon Him) you will find him to be a practical statesman with concerns about the everyday affairs in this life; and through responsible conduct in this life that we address the needs for the next. We are often told, &#8216;This life is like preparing for a long journey&#8217;. </p>
<p>I am not a scholar on Islam or even an enlightened Muslim, but what little I know tells me we are encouraged to lead responsible lives. We are not to depend on others to decide and tell us what to do. We have all the faculties to make rational decisions. We are judged on our choices and actions. We who profess Islam as our faith should ask ourselves, is denying another faith the [freedom to practice] Islamic? Can those who strongly opposed the use of Allah by non-Muslims clearly say that to allow it is somehow endangering Muslims? But how do we explain the practice in other Muslim countries? For that matter, how can we explain the many peaceful years the term Allah has and remains to be used by Christians in their everyday lives in Malaysia? Muslims disagree with the Christian doctrine of God, but how does the belief of others impinge on us? If we are honest in our reflection, I suspect we will all come to the conclusion that it doesnâ€™t. If there is a crisis of faith in Malay Muslims, first, let us look at our community and ourselves. To blame others is simply to deny ourselves responsibility over our actions. </p>
<p>But let us also remember than in a democratic society people have a right to voice their opinion albeit peacefully. If some Muslims feel uncomfortable with the use of the word Allah by non-Muslims, they should be allowed to register their protests. But the law and government should reflect the constitution in the longterm interests of all regardless of their status as majority or minority. To appease the majority without recourse to other interests is often to lapse into a tyranny of the majority. However, I would suggest that as events are not represented accurately enough (itâ€™s all really opinions &#8211; no oneâ€™s done an opinion survey), to assume there is a majority support for or against in this issue is premature. So letâ€™s all take a step back and recognize this is not an issue divided by religious affiliations &#8211; not all Muslims in Malaysia oppose the use of the word Allah by non-Muslims. So I think it is a little unfair to continue to address the issue as if there already exists distinctions along religious lines. I am a Muslim who feels it is wrong for the state to intercede in the practice of oneâ€™s faith &#8211; because this is not a matter for public interest, rather it is private.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter</title>
		<link>http://www.thenutgraph.com/christians-wont-stop-using-allah/#comment-14433</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Jan 2010 13:29:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-14433</guid>
		<description>When the race card fails, play the religious card. The Allah issue is politics, with politicians adopting the British adage &quot;divide and rule&quot;: namely to break the PKR alliance, causing disunity in PAS, and in the meantime proclaim that they are defending Muslim rights and that their brand of Islam is better. This has been the practice in BTN (Biro Tatanegara) courses when racist doctrines were propagated, and is still being supported by some of our leaders. So why not religion as a propaganda tool? 

The Allah issue is not sudden; some of the discriminatory practices implemented by the then ruling government and still are being practised. It started when the then Home Minister Tan Sri Syed Hamid Albar arbitrarily decided to make ruling in 2007 to give the &lt;em&gt;Herald&lt;/em&gt; a tough time. This was the height of Umno arrogance, ketuanan Melayu, keris waving etc., to give the impression that they are protecting and defending Malay rights and privileges.

In the meantime, other practices that are intended to intimidate were and are being used. Our East Malaysian brothers ask what is problem; why this fuss about wanting to use the word &quot;Allah&quot;? It is a culmination of many issues, and I am rather relieved that the Catholic church has been brave enough to see this issue through legally and transparently, unlike some quarters that wish it be discussed behind closed doors. 

Perhaps our East Malaysians have not been denied the right hold their religious services. But permits to build churches and temples are denied because of petty issues like church bells not being allowed, buildings cannot be taller than a mosque, not enough people of the same faith in the area, etc. Accuse the authorities of these things, and it is easy for them to deny it as they are discussed behind closed doors. 

Churches and other religious places have places of worships have been torn down because they have been built without permits and are thus illegal. As a result, many churches are forced to rent shop lots, which only accommodate a limited number of people. Those wishing to hold larger services rent halls, which could have also been rented out for an event where a drunken party could have occurred and lewd jokes spoken. Places of worship are forced to be build in factory areas far from their congregation, forced to look like factories.

How can our leaders stand up at international conferences and protest that  Palestinians are intimidated and deprived of their rights when intimidation is practised and encouraged in Malaysia? I pray that that everyone and the whole world can see these lies and pray for peace and harmony, with each religion seeing the good in each other.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When the race card fails, play the religious card. The Allah issue is politics, with politicians adopting the British adage &#8220;divide and rule&#8221;: namely to break the PKR alliance, causing disunity in PAS, and in the meantime proclaim that they are defending Muslim rights and that their brand of Islam is better. This has been the practice in BTN (Biro Tatanegara) courses when racist doctrines were propagated, and is still being supported by some of our leaders. So why not religion as a propaganda tool? </p>
<p>The Allah issue is not sudden; some of the discriminatory practices implemented by the then ruling government and still are being practised. It started when the then Home Minister Tan Sri Syed Hamid Albar arbitrarily decided to make ruling in 2007 to give the <em>Herald</em> a tough time. This was the height of Umno arrogance, ketuanan Melayu, keris waving etc., to give the impression that they are protecting and defending Malay rights and privileges.</p>
<p>In the meantime, other practices that are intended to intimidate were and are being used. Our East Malaysian brothers ask what is problem; why this fuss about wanting to use the word &#8220;Allah&#8221;? It is a culmination of many issues, and I am rather relieved that the Catholic church has been brave enough to see this issue through legally and transparently, unlike some quarters that wish it be discussed behind closed doors. </p>
<p>Perhaps our East Malaysians have not been denied the right hold their religious services. But permits to build churches and temples are denied because of petty issues like church bells not being allowed, buildings cannot be taller than a mosque, not enough people of the same faith in the area, etc. Accuse the authorities of these things, and it is easy for them to deny it as they are discussed behind closed doors. </p>
<p>Churches and other religious places have places of worships have been torn down because they have been built without permits and are thus illegal. As a result, many churches are forced to rent shop lots, which only accommodate a limited number of people. Those wishing to hold larger services rent halls, which could have also been rented out for an event where a drunken party could have occurred and lewd jokes spoken. Places of worship are forced to be build in factory areas far from their congregation, forced to look like factories.</p>
<p>How can our leaders stand up at international conferences and protest that  Palestinians are intimidated and deprived of their rights when intimidation is practised and encouraged in Malaysia? I pray that that everyone and the whole world can see these lies and pray for peace and harmony, with each religion seeing the good in each other.</p>
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		<title>By: Abu Bakar</title>
		<link>http://www.thenutgraph.com/christians-wont-stop-using-allah/#comment-14379</link>
		<dc:creator>Abu Bakar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Jan 2010 07:12:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-14379</guid>
		<description>The present Umno leadership is a disgrace, not only to the Malays, but to all Malaysians.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The present Umno leadership is a disgrace, not only to the Malays, but to all Malaysians.</p>
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